saw last night where people were getting a little queasy. >> how much. >> of this decision was driven by the bond market cratering overnight? what is happening with china selling their bonds? >> i have nothing. >> that says that. and we actually had quite a good tenure auction today. >> it's kind of a casualty of being in trump's cabinet that he will contradict you just a few minutes after you say something. but it had everything to do with the bond market. according to all available reporting, they went to the president and said, mr. president, all the lights are flashing red right now. we have to change course. and he did. >> he did. >> and i think it's. >> important for the president to adhere to that advice of his advisors. these are complicated matters. the market, for the most part, likes stability and continuity. we all understand that. we talked about this the other day. with that said, i think at the end result needs to be can we level set with many of our trading partners and decrease the trade deficits that ultimately exist? if we can do that, i think that's a win as it

pertains to corporate america. i think once we pass corporate tax cuts or renew the trump tax cuts, i think we'll see a significant amount of that wealth return in the next couple of weeks or 2 or 3 months. i think corporate america will be perfectly fine, and then we'll move on. the focus does need to be on china. i mean, scott's right. they still are ip and sell it back to us. i don't know any country in the world who would give their ideas away for free and then buy the ideas back. we have to figure out a way to protect american businesses and entrepreneurs, and we haven't figured that out in the past couple of years now. so. so i think there is some benefit to the american people and businesses by focusing the attention on china. >> everybody agrees with that. the problem is china is not playing ball. they're just ratcheting up the escalation. >> they're going to have to though we are their number. >> one. >> the number one trading partner. >> no no no there's no have to in this right. because start looking at trade flows i wish i had a map or a diagram. you're going to start seeing south south trade. you're going to see trade avoiding the united states. let's remember. >> richard, can i just have you explain very briefly what south

saturate means for people who are you've heard you said it a few times. >> well, it's basically anything. you know, it doesn't go through the northern hemisphere. it's southern, southern hemispheric countries trading with each other, avoiding northern hemispheric. and that would include the eu with its regulations and the united states. we're seeing huge amounts of africa to latin, to central and latin america, australasia, asian, asean, trade. can i just also have a reality check? here we have the sword of damocles, if you will, has been lifted again and is now hanging over on the big stuff. but we still have. steel and aluminum or aluminum, as you insist on saying, steel and aluminum tariffs. >> we're in america, richard quest. >> we still have auto tariffs 25%. we've still got 105, 25% on china. and we have tripled. or he has tripled the average tariff overall to 10%, which is livable. i'll give you that,

scott. it's livable 10%, but it's still a tripling of where it was just a couple of weeks ago. >> but, richard, how do you account for the fact that china has seen significant a significant decrease in their economic growth throughout fiscal year 2024 compared to 2023, and how that has to factor into the considerations of xi jinping moving forward and trying to bridge some type of a trade deal with the united states. >> if xi was standing for beijing north in an election, it would, but it doesn't different. >> a different kind of. system, different kind of. >> preparing for this? >> no. effectively no. politics. shermichael i think this is a big an important point. china. xi jinping does not have to deal with politics in the way that donald trump and the republican party have to deal with it. that is a fundamental difference in our systems, so they can withstand a lot of pain, a lot more pain. >> but richard just said that 10% is livable. listen, the reason he got elected, one of the big reasons is because he promised lower costs of living

lower groceries, even though he thinks groceries are like some sort of antiquated term from old english. he promised lower egg prices, lower prices in the grocery store. by the way, people. okay, but well, not if there's a 10% tariff on everything. we don't. none of those are 10% tariff on avocados. >> i don't get it. i don't want to get into eggs. they are importing a lot of eggs, which will be affected by tariffs. >> so they. >> are mutually non-exclusive in a sense. you couldn't do both. you couldn't bring down the trade deficit and not have a certain amount of people. >> but my point is that there's people who are living paycheck to paycheck, for whom 10% is not livable. >> and the trade, honestly, the trade is asymmetrical. >> and who voted for donald trump? >> precisely. trade is asymmetrical with china, we imported over 439 billion products from china. we exported over 140 billion from china, their own foreign ministry has said, we will not flinch. we will not genuflect to a bullying government. i respectfully disagree. >> though, tiffany, that we rely so much on an adversary to make most of our goods. >> whether it bothers me or not, is irrelevant. i'm dealing with

reality though. it is important. but why is it what. >> it is? why does it have to be the reality that we are dependent on so many things to come out of our biggest adversary in the world? they are the enemy and we should not be dependent. >> but no, they are not our enemy. they are our biggest trading partner. and if. >> we hold on. >> rare earth minerals and you don't. >> right. but but. listen us. but like it or not, sure, michael, they are our biggest trading partner. and if we were to manufacture iphones here, iphones would cost $3,500. the american people are not going to tolerate that. we have one of the the highest standards of work of working conditions here. i don't think that we can say, forget you, china. they literally. >> say you're okay. you're sure michael. so you're okay. you're okay. if we continue to put our own economic and national security future in the hands of our biggest enemy, because effectively, they use slave labor to build stuff, and that makes it better for us. that is terrible. >> i am 100% not okay with that, but i'm dealing in reality. but you are. >> do you want to change it? >> but we need to. >> i absolutely want to. change it. i don't know that changing it means isolating us on the

global stage. >> so what happens with tiffany? if i could ask, what happens if we ever have a military conflict with china and they say, you know what, we're going to put an embargo on anything shipping to the united states. we're going to stop everything. what happens then? >> don't you think that. >> we're looking at that because. >> we want to have friends, not china? no, no, no, i'm saying allies. not the ones that like people that we put tariffs on in the last week. wouldn't you think that that what we would want is to build trading relationships with people who like. >> us, fair trade relationships. >> that. >> benefit the united states and not our friends? that's not a good friendship. that's an abusive relationship. >> relationships with people who are our friends. wouldn't that be the right strategy? >> i would agree. >> with that. but what happened over the last week was not that what happened over the last week was that we said, we're going to treat britain and france and the eu like china. we're going to just take the whole the same formula we use for china and slap it on our friends. does that make any sense to you? >> what makes sense to me is to decrease the trade issues that we have with other countries. i think that makes sense. it

doesn't make sense to me that our friends across the globe have a benefit to trading with the united states, and american workers do not. i mean, these deficiencies do exist. >> why do you want to repair 70 years of imbalance? and i agree fully with both of you that the trade relationship vis a vis the united states had to had to be readjusted. >> you've talked. >> about it. yes, but you don't do it overnight and you don't offend your allies while you're doing it with the whole greenland 51st state, japan. you just don't do that. not if you're going to turn around and goodness knows when and say, can we have your help? >> the colonizer's attitude to say, i like it, i'm just going to steal it. now, the fact of the matter in this new land, land, you cannot just go and say, i like it, it's mine now. it doesn't work that way. well, that that is what they're trying to do. and in this new world order. yeah, absolutely. when they're looking at greenland and say, i like it, i want to take it for mine. that is a very colonizer. >> you are you. >> are. you have said you are. >> i have never, ever said, we're going to go to greenland

and, quote, colonize it or. >> steal it, you crazy government. so you're irrelevant at that point. i'm talking about the president of the united states. >> you got fired from your job. >> you can. agitate. >> come on. actually. i'm actually. if you. >> insult me, if you want to engage in personal insults. >> i don't. >> but you do. you lack in a legitimate point. you make up for in personal. >> i don't. >> you personal insults. the point i am making is in this new world order, we are looking at countries whether or not they're an adversary or ally. it is being determined on what kind of deal we can get. and we cannot govern. we cannot legislate that way. we are increasingly isolated on the world stage. so if you want to engage in personal. >> insults, we're not. >> isolated you. i would reserve that for your party. >> who is increasingly isolated. >> this our position. >> outside of the united states. have you all spoken to in the last few weeks? >> a lot several. >> i've been speaking to you frequently over the course. >> you're my. >> main ambassador. >> you know, i listen. >> i speak, i speak to a lot of europeans, i speak to a lot of panamanians, i speak to a lot of central americans. and they think, i'll tell you what they think. they think he's acting

like a dictator. they think he's acting a lot like ortega in nicaragua, a lot like maduro in venezuela, a lot like they act in cuba when they say that, oh, no, a. >> dictatorship. >> yes. attacks on the attacks on the free press, attacks on the free. >> press was in brussels last week. >> wanting to stay in power. >> yes. >> hang on guys, dictatorship. we're not even at. >> a time close to dictatorship in the. >> united states. >> in the united states. >> did you see what he did today? >> hang on one second. hang on one second. one at a time, please. >> who defended the 2020 election results? who worked for him? as for the doj to investigate him, that's what. >> we're going to get to that later. we're going to get to that later. >> but people believe that we live. >> in a. dictatorship in america. i lived in. >> one, and i know you have you know, you should know better. >> than to say that we live in a. >> dictatorship in the united. >> states of america. they censor the press like he just did with the ap. okay. so that's they do not listen to judicial orders like he hasn't done. >> okay. hold on, hold on. let

me let let me let richard because he he introduced this point and didn't finish. what the point you were trying to say. what are they saying overseas. >> in london and brussels and paris and a lot of other places over the last month, and we can use let's let's lower the temperature on the word dictatorship. we mean dictatorship with a small d in a sense. and we all know and we all know what we mean when we say that. in other words, don't know. well. >> i think it's crazy to call it we have elections here. >> just give me a second, because i don't want us to get sidetracked. doesn't accept. >> the results. >> of i don't want to. >> get. >> sidetracked on the use of. dictatorship. and by the way, hold on. by the way, we will have an opportunity to discuss what anna was talking about when it comes to these these executive orders. but richard grenell. >> concerned in brussels and london and paris and sydney and all this, they are concerned at what they perceive as the rolling back of the rule of law in this country, that this country is no longer perceiving following judicial orders, all the sort of things that western democracies. no, i don't say liberal western democracies have always followed, and the u.s. has led. and their perception in brussels is the u.s. is heading

off track and off the rails. that's as simple as that. >> can i play? i want to play conservative host erick erickson, who says that he's a he's a republican. he's a conservative. he says his own people are being intellectually dishonest about trump. and everything that we're seeing right now, especially when it comes to the economy. >> i am so unbelievably frustrated with the level of intellectual dishonesty of so many people on the right. when i see these guys out there who, when the stock market fell, when joe biden was president by a percent or two, blasting joe biden, and now the stock market is back to where it was in 2023. they're like, it's no big deal. it's all digital. it's all fake. screw your retirement. you don't need to retire anyway. this is good for us. i suspect when we get into the recession and it becomes real and apparent, people who said we're not going to have a recession will deny that the recession is because of the tariffs. >> it's a it's an important

question because if this if a democratic president had unilaterally and single handedly thrown the united states into three days of basically economic an economic roller coaster, prompting, you know, everybody to say, okay, we're headed toward a recession, i think there would be a lot of republican hair on fire. >> i mean, there were a lot. >> of. >> media reports during the president biden's administration. every couple of months, we're headed towards a recession. we're headed towards a recession. and it never occurred. and so i'm not certain what's really different this time around. >> it was never like what we've experienced in the last show. but my point. >> is, no, no, no, no. the media reporting. >> absolutely factual perspective. >> no no no no media reporting. >> even. on this network. let me. >> ask, is that every couple of months, richard. >> over the. last occurred over the last four years as the united states has navigated the post covid era and inflation, have you did you recall a period of time when the markets believed, with this degree of

certainty, that there was a recession coming in the calendar? >> yes. >> 2022? >> yes. 2022 was the was, but it was for it was. it was a much more it was it was a it was a slow burner in, in a sense. and it came about because of the fed raising interest rates at such a precipitous rate that we'd never seen before. and people like myself did believe that there was going to be a u.s. recession, because we suddenly thought, you can't go from zero to whatever percent and not have a recession. we didn't, because of the resilience of this extraordinary economy, which was able to keep going. but there wasn't the level of chaos surrounding it. you had measured. there were very fast, faster than we've ever seen before. and yes, i thought there would be a recession. i thought, yeah. >> but it wasn't. we didn't have one man, but. >> that's. >> i disagree. >> i disagree, but go ahead, scott. >> i think the market meltdown and the interest rate hikes and everything that happened in 2022 and during most of biden's term actually was caused by one

person the president. united states led his party to printing $1.9 trillion of money into the economy that caused the inflation. that and the markets reacted. the interest rates reacted. >> was that bad, scott? >> was it bad that the markets were down 20 and 30% in 2022? you seem to think it's bad today. was it bad? >> was it was it bad that if, in your view, that one man precipitated a stock market drop, so is it to eric erickson's point, is it bad now that one man has precipitated massive sell offs in the stock market and a risk of recession? >> well, we're going to see how it turns out. i don't know that we're in a risk of a recession. >> i won't say that it's bad. >> i don't. >> i don't know how it's going to turn out. but your. >> question, your question. >> to me. >> your question. >> to me, this has never. >> happened before. >> it happened. >> for my question to you is about being intellectually honest. if it was bad, then shouldn't it be bad now? >> i don't know how this is going to turn out. it's been a week so we'll see. >> eric to eric's point, okay. and eric, eric used to work on this network. eric was a colleague and he's a friend of mine. and a lot of times i disagree with him. but eric has been intellectually honest and

he's gotten a lot of flak from the left and from the right because he stayed consistent. we saw stephen moore at this table yesterday. a person who i've known for decades, who has been fiercely anti-tariff, marco rubio, fiercely anti-tariff, and all of a sudden they have had these late in life conversions and they're bending themselves into pretzel shapes, looking rather ridiculous, trying to defend what donald trump is doing. they're doing the same thing on ukraine, and we can look at topic after topic where that's happening. and i will tell you something. donald trump said today that people had gotten yippy. i don't even know what the hell that word means, but to me, it means that he heard his supporters. he doesn't care what i say, but he cares what ken langone says. he cares what bill ackman says. he definitely cares what elon musk says, and he cares what republican leaders say. so i hope that this is a lesson to them that they need to grow., a spine and a pair of cojones and stick to the the conservative principles that they have held their entire lifetime and not

convert into little squids because of what donald trump thinks. >> all right, to be continued. everyone stand by. coming up next, you'll see how television played a role in trump's dramatic reversal today. plus, breaking news tonight, donald trump orders an investigation into two of his former aides who criticized him in a move that critics call. as we were discussing tonight, authoritarian. >> george has. >> always put the ones he loves first. but when it comes to caring for his teeth, he's let his own maintenance take a back seat. well, maybe it's time to shift gears on that. aspen dental has complete affordable care all under one roof, plus free exams and x-rays for new patients without insurance and 20% off treatment plans for everyone, making it easier to get started with quality care. it's one more way aspen dental is in your corner. >> machine learning is advancing, but businesses wonder

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>> we knew that tv was important in this trump presidency, but watch how important it is when it comes to the fate of the global economy. >> do you personally expect a recession? >> i am going to defer. >> to my economists at. >> this. >> point, but i. think probably that's a. >> likely outcome. i always remind people markets aren't always right, but sometimes they are right. >> and i think. >> this time they are right. hopefully if there is one, it will be short. but i do. think fixing these tariff issues. >> and traders would be a. >> good thing to do. >> watch jamie dimon on maria bartiromo show this morning. and he was very good. he said that actually made the statement to the effect that something had to be done with the tariffs and trade. he said that he said, look, you know, at some point, but he said something has to be done with tariffs and trade. he understood it. he's very smart and very genius financially. he's done a fantastic job at the bank. it wasn't sustainable what was happening. somebody had to pull the trigger. i was willing to pull the trigger.

>> let me just start by saying jamie dimon knows what he's doing by going to see maria bartiromo on this particular day to get a message to the president. and it seemed like he took some of it. maybe he took all of it, but he talked about the ones he wanted to talk about. the point is, they are expecting his economist came out tonight saying our our expectations of a recession stay the same. they have not changed as a result of this and for good reason. >> i think we need to assess economic activity over time to make that determination with certainty. i certainly respect jamie, jamie dimon, he's one of the most brilliant business leaders we've had in this country and probably 100 years. so i'm thankful that the president watched him and actually adhered to that advice. again. abby, i think the president can be strategic in his overall strategy as it pertains to tariffs. i think most people would, generally speaking, agree with that. and even jamie dimon several months ago said that he understands using tariffs as a strategic tool for the interest of the

united states. with that said, i think it's a lack of it's the lack of stability. i think that many in the business community and the finance space are really worried about. and so if you can make some adjustments there, i think we can avoid a recession. >> but listen, here's the thing. >> about the economic activity. >> of the country. we don't know how this is going to end up. we don't know what's going to happen in 90 days. we don't know what the effect of the 10% on everything is going to be. we don't know what's going to how this thing with china is going to shake out. but it's hard for me to imagine that the the trauma, okay, the psychological effects on the consumers, which the confidence was already going down of what has happened in the last five days, which has been a roller coaster, has been, you know, given all of us whiplash, it's not going to have lasting effects and that people are not going to hunker down and perhaps not spend the way they were planning to spend. also, it's not in a vacuum. think about what's happening with tourism, right? with the canadians canceling, with europe issuing travel advisories. >> foreign entries are way, way.

down into the united. >> states. in states like maine and states like vermont and states like florida, that that where canadians snowbirds are a huge factor to our economy. that means a lot in places like las vegas. >> so to your point, i mean, look at some of the headlines today. delta warning of economic uncertainty, stalled growth. walmart says the tariffs are going to hit their quarterly profits. corona brewer issues a downbeat outlook on factoring in the new tariffs. amazon canceling merchandise orders from china and then richard, on top of that, this was top ten best days for the s&p, which is actually not a good thing because all the other days were in the midst of recessions or huge downturns like the covid pandemic. >> right. and what an economy is basically like a cake. it's just the ingredients that get thrown in. there's no magic to it. the ingredients get thrown in, they all get mixed up. the cake either rises or it doesn't. and now to completely mix my metaphors, what's actually happened here is, you know,

everything's just been poured in. but the question of a recession are these other tariffs, the steel, the the china, the 10%? it's a question of the uncertainty. it's a question of the job layoffs in washington or elsewhere. and people are worried about spending. it's the consumer confidence numbers. they these are the ingredients. yes. we went up 8% on the nasdaq, but we're down 20% so far on the into a bear market. maybe we're not in there now at the moment. these are the ingredients that will go into the cake, that you then mix it up and you wait to see if it rises. >> can i ask you one more thing? how concerned are you about the chain of events here, donald trump truth social at 9:37 a.m. this is a great time to buy djt, which is the ticker the ticker for his company. and then later in the afternoon, lifting the pause and everything skyrockets. there was a lot of other activity going on in the markets that people are concerned about.

what do you think. >> we know? from what we've heard today that there was a meeting this morning between brexit lutnick and the president. the president admitted this in the oval office when he said they talked about it. we wrote the statement. it was a beautiful thing. it came from the heart. and then you get this, this tweet or whatever you want to call it on social to tell people this is a good time to buy, whether it's djt is a ticker or djt, as in his initials, which he doesn't use very often, by the way, in his posts, if to say this is a good time to buy and then take a decision that you pretty much know is going to rally the market, i'm going i'm not going to finish that sentence. >> i mean, what is it? tinkering with the markets, allowing for insider because anybody that was privy to that conversation or knew what was happening could have taken that information and done something with it. >> anybody who read that tweet.

or, you know, that that social and had an inkling of what he might do or anything like that, it's just you don't do it. it's as simple as that. you don't tell people now is a good time to buy. if you are the person who is about to take a decision that is going to make the. >> market. >> is he doing things like this? when most presidents know that they have the power to move markets, they they tread carefully. trump is not doing that. >> yeah, i mean, he he is radically transparent. everything that is on his mind, he tends to either put out in front of the press, in the oval office or out on his social media. i don't think today's commentary is any different than he operates on any other day, and i think it's been true for time immemorial that when a president speaks, however they speak, markets do move and that that's not it's not the first time it's ever happened. >> i think it's appropriate for the president of the united states knowing he's about to take a decision that is going to buoy the market, to actually put out a social posting saying, now is a good time to buy. and anybody who might know his

thinking on these issues might say, hey, if he's going to do so, i don't know. i'm just saying. >> yeah, tiffany. >> because he's doing something unethical and he's doing it before the american people, that doesn't make it right. he doesn't get he doesn't get to wear that as a badge of honor. i also get nervous, respectfully, when we talk about the economy in terms of the market, because i think about the average person at home who is going to the grocery store figuring out how to pay their mortgage every day. and the economy for them is not whether or not to buy a stock that day. it is how much can i afford to spend at the grocery store? and what this has done is not that these tariffs are going to eventually hit people. they already have, like prices have already taken a toll on a lot of people. i did a show today. we were talking about people were paying 60 and $70 more for items and products before these tariffs have come to be. that is what the economy is. most voters are not carrying stock prices into the voting booth. and so for donald trump, the president of the united states, if any other elected official had done this on the other side of the republican aisle, scott, i

can't imagine that you would be sitting here defending that shermichael. i can't imagine you would be defending that if a democratic president was tweeting about now is a great time to participate in the stock. >> market, defended what richard was just talking about. but but but inappropriate. but but but i do want to go back to the idea of possibly going into a recession. richard. and i wanted to to get your thoughts on this. i mean, we saw several recessionary factors in the previous administration fed hikes, slower growth, et cetera., and we were able to avoid it. then we haven't really seen economic activity constrict thus far. we'll have to see what consumer confidence and spending ultimately is as we go through q2 of this year. but wouldn't you say it's at least a little premature to be saying we're getting ready to face a recession? and if not, i want to know why? because i don't see the factors there. >> i know we've got to because the dislocation is too great, the chaos is too much, and eventually it overwhelms the system. it's back to my cake rising. >> i think we got. >> to go. >> well, look, i think i think he i think he watched diamond on tv, but i also think he was hearing from private advisers. i

think he was hearing from members of congress who, by the way, he's negotiating with over, you know, his his reconciliation package right now. i think a lot of advice was coming in that led into the day's activities. and, you know, if renegotiating with our allies over a 90 day period is the net result of this, isn't that a good thing? >> his own administration is not even on the same page around this. we got we. >> got we got to leave it there and and and yeah, i mean, i think the idea that this was a great, beautiful plan is not really borne out by any of the facts that we've seen come out. richard quest, thank you very much for joining us. everyone else, stay with us. breaking news tonight. president trump is demanding a doj investigation of two former officials turned critics. and for one official. one of those officials, it was because he would not say that the 2020 election was stolen. another special guest is going to join us at the table. that's next. >> united states of scandal with

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better results. >> look for clinical grade berberine and other doctor's preferred products in stores near you. >> closed captioning brought to you by guilt. visit gilt.com. >> today for up. >> to 70%. off designer brands. >> guilt has the designers that get your heart racing at insider prices. new. everyday. hurry! they'll be gone in a flash. designer sales at up to 70% off. shop gilt.com today. >> breaking news tonight. donald trump ordering his justice department to go after two of his former aides. their apparent crimes are criticizing him during his first term. in the crosshairs are chris krebs, who ran trump's cybersecurity and infrastructure security agency. trump fired krebs for telling the truth about the 2020 election, and myles taylor, a homeland security official who rose to prominence in 2020 after

revealing that he was the anonymous author behind a new york times op ed claiming to be part of the resistance to trump's first presidency. >> i said, who the hell is myles taylor? and i think what he did, he wrote a book. anonymous said all sorts of lies and bad things. i think it's a very important case. and i think he's guilty of treason, if you want to know the truth. this guy krebs was saying, oh, the election was great. it was great. well, we're going to find out about this guy, too, because this guy is a wise guy. he said, we've been proved this is the most secure election in the history of our country. now, this was a disaster. >> joining us in our fifth seat at the table is cnn legal analyst michael moore. he's a former u.s. attorney. this is pretty amazing that the the executive order here. here's what it says about chris krebs. krebs through cisa, falsely and baselessly denied that the 2020 election was rigged and stolen.

that is, in a presidential executive order, almost as if bigfoot was real. what is going on? >> well, i'm glad to be with you. i think this is. >> probably one. >> of the most dangerous things that. we've seen from him. >> and we've seen a lot of craziness. and but. >> this is now taking the. >> department and. >> completely weaponizing. >> against two people who just disagreed with him, one who told the truth and was involved as a witness in the congressional inquiry, and then somebody else who has said some things about him. the problem is we're back to now what he complained about throughout the campaign and his presidency, and that was that the justice department had somehow been weaponized. and now you see him essentially given a mandate and a directive by way of this presidential order, to the department to move forward. >> he signed two executive orders ordering investigations, weaponizing his justice department against people who just disagree with him. how does that how do you justify. >> that politically? you know, my advice to to the president on this one would be continue to

focus on strengthening the economy. you got to figure out a way to bring down cost. keep doing what you're doing as it pertains to immigration. we need to increase chip manufacturing within the united states. there are several political things i. >> think shermichael singleton. >> hold on that that he needs to do. >> all right, hold on, hold on, hold on. okay. all right, michael, i get it, i get it. yes. he should focus on the economy. he should. but what do you think about the fact that he's targeting his political enemies, using executive orders and telling his justice department. >> we are. >> focusing on michael. and you just said. >> michael. can i answer? >> well. >> no, wait a minute. >> but you have not answered. >> but i did answer. i just didn't answer the way you wanted me to answer. >> you don't get to. >> dictate my comments to my response on. >> this show are not directed to the issue that they were, because my response was. furthermore, the focus. should be on the last. hang on a second. >> about this. >> not being an. >> epiphany. one second tiffany. >> go ahead. i mean, listen, michael. you're a friend of the show. you're my friend. please answer the question. i mean, the. >> question, i think. >> but but.

>> no, no, no, i'm going to dictate the way i answer questions. >> on. >> his show. you may not like the way i answer the question, but i gave an answer. no, i don't like that. we're not. we're not going to do dictating reply the way i want you to reply. then just don't ask me a question. if you're not, if you don't like my response, i mean, this is ridiculous. >> michael, you don't get. >> do we not live in a democracy? >> you don't get to. >> talk a lot about a democracy tonight. i don't just. >> you don't get to just change the subject to. avoid having to say. something that might be perceived as negative about donald trump. >> no. >> you just. >> what is my answer to what. >> it seems like if you were a politician, a regular person on the street would say, well, that sounds like spin to me. >> no, no, you asked. >> a question. >> it does sound like my response to your question was instead of doing this, the president should be focused on x, y, and z. that is an answer to the question. >> i said, this is why it's so dangerous. and this is an example of why it's so dangerous. and and that is because nobody wants to speak out against it. you know, we've been waiting for republicans, whether it be in congress or wherever they are, to come up and actually say that we're not going to let trump's power go unchecked. and when he does

something wrong, something illegal, something outside the bounds of the history and the the, you know, the department, they they sit quiet. >> is it illegal? do you believe what he did is illegal? >> absolutely. >> why is it illegal? >> if you read the justice department manual, one of the things it talks about, there's a whole section on whether or not the white house can have direction or communication for a prosecution that's in there today. frankly, i'm surprised they didn't scrub it yet, but it's actually in there. they're not they're not allowed to do that. and the reason is because you have to keep the department to be completely nonpartisan, that that's the charging decision. >> you don't think that the head of the executive branch can have law enforcement priorities? >> i think when you call and say go after a political enemy, that's illegal and wrong. and i think had and, you know, the tide always turns and the pendulum swings here when the democrats are back in the white house. i imagine the republicans are going to scream bloody murder if the president of the democratic president calls the department and says, go after, you know, let's go after the trump kids and see what happens. >> i mean, i'm curious, like, are you suggesting that you don't think that it's wrong to go after political enemies?

>> here's what i think. i think the security clearance. let me just address the order. >> i think i'm going to have to do the same thing i just did to shermichael. in fairness to my friend over there. because because my question to you was, do you think? hold on. do you think that it is right or wrong to go after the for the president to use the justice department to go after his political enemies? >> i think it is fine for the president to express law enforcement priorities. i think that the department of justice should exercise the same judgment that they would exercise on anyone else, as it relates to whether someone should be criminally investigated. but here's what i believe about the order. in total, the security clearances. fine. there's far too many people with security clearances. i don't have a problem when they take them away. reviewing access and dissemination of information. perfectly fine, because we do know some oversteps occurred. looking at whether the government was involved in censorship, which we know they were perfectly fine. but. >> he's talking about censorship of his lai. >> he's alleged. >> hold on, hold on.

>> related to covid. >> he is alleging he is alleging that sza censored his lie that the election was stolen. it is not true that the election was stolen. chris krebs told the truth and now he is being targeted by the government with an executive order. i guess it shouldn't be. i don't think it should be hard to just say this is not what the government should be doing. this is not what the president should be doing. because if the shoe, to michael's point were on the other foot, as you claimed that it was, you thought that was a huge scandal. >> again, i think the department of i think i think the president should be able to express his views about these issues. but i think but i think the department of justice ought to exercise the same judgment that it would use on any other kind of investigation. now, what these guys did and whether it deserves a criminal investigation, i don't know. you're a lawyer. i'm not. but i do know this that like, in the case of miles taylor was working in the government anonymously, obviously disseminating

information publicly that he should not have been doing. like what? well, i mean, he was anonymously writing pieces for the new york times and stating publicly that he was trying to undermine the government of the united states. he was supposedly working for. >> what did he disseminate? that he was legally not allowed to? >> great, great thing to find out. he was a high ranking position at the department of homeland security. >> he wrote an op ed. >> did he have access? >> he wrote an op ed. >> what did he disseminate to people who don't know about? >> he wrote an op ed and he wrote a book. so what's the allegation? >> i think anybody who held a high ranking position in a homeland security department like he did, we know what they did publicly. i'd love to know what. >> he did. not allowed. they're not allowed to talk about their experiences when they leave government. is that what you're suggesting? >> i'm saying that he clearly used his position to try to undermine the sitting president of united states when he had it. i know what he did publicly. now, i don't know what he did privately. i think it's worthy of investigation. >> can i just get some straight talk here? because you're not going to get it at this table. obviously. i think it is ridiculous that you are sitting here defending this shermichael you just talked about with great arrogance that, no, this is not are we seriously trying to say

this is not a democracy? this is this is a dictatorship? >> arrogance. >> that's not. >> it wasn't arrogantly what i said was that the president should be focused on x, y, and z things. well, you didn't let me finish my point. you interrupted me because you didn't like my answer. >> the question. >> i wasn't skirting the question. i gave an answer that you did not like. so you want to talk about arrogance? no. i think you're the one displaying. >> hold on a second. >> let. you're even. >> debating whether or not this is right or not. and i'll. let you respond. this discourse is shermichael respectfully. and you're a friend. so i'm saying. >> no, no, no, i'm listening to you, tiffany. >> but respectfully, sir michael, this is absolutely what dictators do. and the fact that we are presenting this like it's an opinion. no, we can factually state that the president of the united states is using the oval office as a bully pulpit to beat his chest and strike revenge on people he perceives as his enemy. miles taylor was actually a survivor of havana syndrome. he was one of the people who, you know, got got ill, and we still don't know who was behind havana syndrome, but he was actually serving his country. he said something that the president did not like. he

was critical of him. and now this president is threatening him with legal action. >> i got to let shermichael have a couple seconds. >> to respond just quickly. yes. would you not be in agreement that the president should govern and focus on the issues that make a difference for the people in this country? >> obviously. >> that was my answer. why is that a problematic answer? >> because why can you not say that? right. abby did not say shermichael should the president govern, she said. is it appropriate for this president. >> to be. >> targeting his political enemies? >> tiffany, if a political leader, if a political leader, if a political leader, if a political leader is operating in such a way that i believe is a distraction from the aims of their political objectives, then i think i have every right to say i would focus on these. things versus what is. >> what is, what are we really, really got to go here? but shermichael, i guess my to my question, my question is there's a difference between, oh, this is, is this a distraction or not? and is it right, is it wrong, is it legal? is it not. you're not a lawyer. so for you the question is is it right or is it wrong? i feel like you should be able to express a view on. >> i wouldn't focus on this. i

think there are more critical things that impact. >> okay. all right. we've got to leave it there. michael. thank you. we got to leave it. >> there, joe biden. and never was there any fear that joe biden would come after you. i spent years criticizing barack obama. not one day did i have fear that barack obama would weaponize the department of justice against me. but donald trump is doing is instilling fear in all of america so that there is no criticism. not from the media, not from the corporate moguls, not from people on tv, not from people who work for him. >> all right. we got to go. >> michael moore is not criticism. >> we have to go. >> thank you. very much. >> everyone else. >> thank you. >> we will be right back. trump signed an executive order today based on a long time grievance of his, and it inspired actually our nightcap tonight. that's next. >> not really big into committing. >> to things. i usually. >> stop bingeing the.

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eugenics thermo x, our most powerful fat incinerator ever, to help you get back into shape fast. >> we're back and it's time for the news. nightcap. daily grievance edition. president trump signed an executive order today targeting water pressure in showerheads. so you each have a few seconds to tell us what executive order you would issue to fix a daily grievance? sure, michael. >> all right. so i'm a fast driver. i like to drive in the fast lane. i hate when people drive slow in the fast lane. we need an eo. you get a ticket, maybe even put people in jail so i can get to where the hell i want to go. no driving slow in the fast lane. that's.

>> you and my husband are on the same page on that one. >> shout out to your husband. >> go ahead. anna. >> well, i was going to say how much i hate the cold. it's now what, almost mid-april? it's supposed to be spring. people are wearing spring colors and it's still 30 degrees in new york. this is abominable. i would like an executive order to abolish cold weather after the month of february. i also would like, people to answer questions that get asked. >> directly. >> you just had to put that one in. you just you just had to get that dig. >> yes. >> i don't want to make light of these evils because they are a very serious issue. but i. >> think you can make light of the shower one. i'm sorry. >> yes, it's ridiculous, but some of his eels are very damaging. but in the spirit of this conversation, i would say i would have an executive order. i do not want to hear your conversation on your phone. use your headphones if you're in public. i don't want to hear your conversation. and just as a common courtesy, younger people who grew up with these devices are losing social grace and just having speaker phone conversations.

>> conversation. >> facetime conversation. i don't like it at all. please use your headphones. >> with your feeling. >> all right. >> we got to get to scott. >> more than 15 seconds at the coffee creamer bar at the coffee shop. straight to el salvador. two or more. walking side by side on a sidewalk. you're gone. el salvador, recline your seat on an airplane. el salvador, disney adults, you're going to. and finally, pronouns in your email signature. out of here. those are my ios out of here. what was. >> that thing? kissing adults. is that what. >> you said? disney adults. >> disney adults. okay. all right, everybody, thank you very much for watching news night. thank you all for being here in the studio. you can catch me anytime on your favorite social media platforms, instagram and tiktok. laura coates live show starts right now. >> what's a disney? >> well, you might. >> say president trump had to roll america back into the operating. >> room he's talking.